Getting the game music

How might that be achieved?

I tried downloading the Miah-iTunes-ogg file. It says that it doesn't know what application it needs to open it. (note: I'm running on the OSX platform.) And what in the name of god is Ogg Vorbis format? :blink:

This post has been edited by (SW) Spartan 327 : 07 May 2006 - 09:56 AM

  1. ogg is a music compression format, similar to mp3 (no, the formats are not that similar, but the two formats do about the same thing). There are a couple of plugins for QuickTime that will allow you to play .ogg on a Mac, and there are some programs that run under OS X that will play .ogg. However, I have not had much luck with any of them.

  2. You could also get the music from the IV Store or from the websites of DMA-SC and Trash80, the composers of the music.

xander

People who use .ogg are evil.

Hah, well thanks darwinian, I got all the tracks except for one. (if you want to know, the track is called Excuses, by Trash80.)

@trickfred, on May 12 2006, 02:03 AM, said in Getting the game music:

Tresk - Excuses

Try that. 😄

OMG! It's trickfred! OMFGLOLBBQ!!!!!!11!!!1!!one

xander

Decaf, my friend. De-caf.

@trickfred, on May 12 2006, 01:53 PM, said in Getting the game music:

Decaf, my friend. De-caf.

I don't drink anything caffeinated at all. Are you suggesting that I switch to decaf so that I might have a very small amount of caffeine in my diet?

xander

@darwinian, on May 12 2006, 01:17 PM, said in Getting the game music:

I don't drink anything caffeinated at all. Are you suggesting that I switch to decaf so that I might have a very small amount of caffeine in my diet?

xander

...

...

backs away slowly

@mrxak, on May 7 2006, 03:43 PM, said in Getting the game music:

People who use .ogg are evil.

It's actually a pretty decent format, from what I hear. There's just a lack of fully functional plug-ins for most of the major music players.

@andcarne, on May 13 2006, 12:25 AM, said in Getting the game music:

It's actually a pretty decent format, from what I hear. There's just a lack of fully functional plug-ins for most of the major music players.

Hence, people who use .ogg are evil. It's like releasing a movie only on betamax.

@mrxak, on May 14 2006, 12:50 AM, said in Getting the game music:

Hence, people who use .ogg are evil. It's like releasing a movie only on betamax.

...what?

Firstly, releasing something only on betamax isn't evil. It's a decision with no ethics attached to it at all.

Secondly, Vorbis is nothing like Betamax/VHS. You need a dedicated piece of hardware to play Betamax. You don't for Vorbis. QuickTime has a Vorbis plugin. Many media players on many different platforms support Vorbis. Even a modern iPod, with the Rockbox firmware, supports Vorbis. It's a completely open, free format, so anyone can support Vorbis (which is, in fact, why game manufacturers tend to use it), which kinda means that releasing audio in Vorbis is the complete opposite of being evil.

This post has been edited by Dave2 : 13 May 2006 - 07:54 PM

Heh, enter the fanatics.

Look, if a format is so obscure that none of the major players can play it by default, regardless of whatever plug-ins may be available, then it's being irresponsible to release stuff only in that format.

@mrxak, on May 14 2006, 05:06 AM, said in Getting the game music:

Heh, enter the fanatics.

Look, if a format is so obscure that none of the major players can play it by default, regardless of whatever plug-ins may be available, then it's being irresponsible to release stuff only in that format.

This is for in-game audio. It's not inteded for use out of game. It's only in mono (because they couldn't get stereo into the Darwinia engine properly), whilst the originals are stereo. If IV had used MP3, they would have had to have paid $2.5k for the pleasure of using an inferior format. If they'd used MPEG4 AAC, they would have also had to pay money, for a format which is roughly equivalent to Vorbis. So instead, they did what Epic, id Software, Croteam, IO Interactive, Ion Storm, 3D Realms, Crytek, Lionhead, Rockstar North, and many more did, and used the completely free Vorbis.

And just one other question; would you think that people are being highly irressponsible to only release software for the Mac? I don't want to assume an answer from you on this, so I'm interested to see what you say.

(EDIT)I also forgot to point out that QuickTime and WMP are the only two major software players I can think of that don't do Vorbis, though my latest Mac is an 8500/180, so I don't know the current status of Mac players.(/EDIT)

This post has been edited by Dave2 : 14 May 2006 - 04:49 AM

@dave2, on May 14 2006, 05:31 AM, said in Getting the game music:

This is for in-game audio. It's not inteded for use out of game. It's only in mono (because they couldn't get stereo into the Darwinia engine properly), whilst the originals are stereo. If IV had used MP3, they would have had to have paid $2.5k for the pleasure of using an inferior format. If they'd used MPEG4 AAC, they would have also had to pay money, for a format which is roughly equivalent to Vorbis. So instead, they did what Epic, id Software, Croteam, IO Interactive, Ion Storm, 3D Realms, Crytek, Lionhead, Rockstar North, and many more did, and used the completely free Vorbis.

And just one other question; would you think that people are being highly irressponsible to only release software for the Mac? I don't want to assume an answer from you on this, so I'm interested to see what you say.

(EDIT)I also forgot to point out that QuickTime and WMP are the only two major software players I can think of that don't do Vorbis, though my latest Mac is an 8500/180, so I don't know the current status of Mac players.(/EDIT)

If it's in-game audio, so be it. That's really not my concern. I'm talking much more broadly.

As for your little Mac question, no, I don't consider that irresponsible. A better example on your part might have been releasing software just for the CP/M-86 OS, though my answer would still be the same. What kind of binary you release is entirely your own business, if that is your intended audience. But if you release a file that you expect people to play, it is irresponsible to release it in such a manner as to exclude the vast majority of those you wish to have access to it.

You mention that QuickTime and WMP are the only two major software players you can think of. Well, guess which two major software players are the players most people use?

What if their target audience is those who have access to Vorbis players anyway (I've downloaded Theora/Vorbis .ogg files of GUADEC)? What if they are protesting against software patents, and don't want to use any patented technology? What if they really don't care who listens to it, and just put some Vorbis files up to share with whoever wants them?

I really don't see the difference between releasing for Mac (or any platform) only, and releasing in Vorbis only, except for the fact that the Mac is a closed, propriatary, expensive system (requires certain hardware to run the OS, and for people with an existing non-Mac PC it would require quite an investment), whilst Vorbis is completely open and free. Both have a fairly small market share, both have avid users of the technology who wouldn't want to use anything else, and both have technological reasons why people use them. Thus I feel that such a blanket statement as "being irresponsible to release stuff only in that format" is, quite frankly, wrong, given that there are a great number of reasons why someone would want to distribute only in Vorbis.

Granted, the barrier to changing the encoding of an audio file is likely* smaller than porting existing code to another completely different OS, but using your logic, whenever I started a new software project, I'd always make my primary target Windows on i386 compatible so that it could be used by the largest number of people possible. And yes, I know that you said that you don't actually care about what platform software is released for, but I still feel this conflicts with your aforementioned assertion.

*"likely" because there may be legal or technological reasons as to why this could be difficult, e.g. not having a lossless copy, or the aforementioned patents.

Obviously I'm getting nowhere with you so I'm not going to bother anymore. I am a bit curious as to where you all of a sudden came from? A bit odd in my mind that you show up all of a sudden as soon as .ogg is mentioned, and post only in this topic to "defend" it.

I'm a member of the Introversion community, and this topic was pointed out in the Darwinia IRC channel, and I felt compelled to register to reply.

I maintain my position that there is nothing wrong with choosing which audio format you wish to distribute your files in, especially when it's a completely open and free one which anyone can implement, and it's certainly not evil or irresponsible. It may be inconvenient to some people, but there are definite benefits to using the format (especially in the in-game context of this thread, which you appear to have conceded), and even when this is not the case, I feel that nobody but the creator themselves should feel that they have any right to the audio in any format. Certainly people should be able to suggest that they distribute in other formats (I myself wish more people would distribute in Vorbis or FLAC), but it was the "extreme" terms ("evil", "irresponsible"), implying that people have some sort of right to the music in the format that they want, that made me reply.

@mrxak, on May 16 2006, 05:47 AM, said in Getting the game music:

snip

I'm curious - and am in no way trying to stir up any argument, just healthy discussuion - but what completely open, patent-free audio encoding and streaming technology would you recommend that IV use in their games as an alternative to .ogg?

They can use whatever they want inside their own closed binaries. It's really not any of my business. My argument against .ogg is a far more general one.

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