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There will be a tournament this Saturday. From now on folks, if you don't like something, you need to come to either Number279 or myself via email. I do not have time to baby sit. I am sorry it had to come to this, but there can only be so many chiefs and many more braves. - Thank You
-- original post snipped --
------------------ I am the fox, let my talk will thrill you, when you get to know me, my smile will chill you. With a name like anklebiter, just what did you expect? (url="http://"http://www.foxchange.com/~matt/anklecam/")The ankle cam!(/url) Out of 33 moderators, I ranked the lowest in overall ranking, temperament and trust!
(This message has been edited by anklebiter (edited 03-25-2003).)
Quote
Originally posted by anklebiter: **Hyko's project looks really cool, but I can't commit to it. This project does something that I already had something planned for. I wish someone could have asked me before they started this.
Anyone who does disagree, I am sorry and I am not going to argue this. I am not going to have a repeat of last week.**
For the record, I never did say no. Then again, I also was very sure everyone would want to jump all over me I am still waiting for someone to take the torch.
That's unfortunate -- wouldn't setting some fairly plain and known rules avoid most of these conflicts?
The pop-pop tournaments have definitely been a good thing; I'd like to see them continue.
------------------ Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc. Some people's minds are like cement: all mixed up and permanently set...
Folks, it looks like there has been some controversy over the pop-pop tournament. First, let's take a step back: the pop-pop tournament is something that has been organized by people donating their time and hard work to provide an organized forum for you to play in.
Even if you have some small issue with a particular event, or how the pop-pop tournament was run, please keep this in mind: it is a positive thing to have an organized tournament for you folks to play in. People are spending their time to make the tournament run; instead of criticizing, let's see how we can make the tournament work. It is to everyone's benefit.
Post your thoughts here; and please keep any personal attacks OUT of the discussion:
FYI, the current pop-pop tournament rules are available here:
(url="http://"http://people.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/rules.jpg")http://people.ambros...ndrew/rules.jpg(/url)
Was all this sparked off by my asking if we should test it?!?
Well, okay, I will take responsibility for this then - is that okay?
"Excuse me for not answering your letter sooner, but I've been so busy not answering letters that I couldn't get around to not answering yours in time." -- Groucho Marx
Originally posted by andrew: **That's unfortunate -- wouldn't setting some fairly plain and known rules avoid most of these conflicts?
**
Dear Mr. Welch,
I don't know, who is putting board-moderators in charge in your company. But I'd appreciate you to discuss the pros and cons of a certain style of "leading" a board and what kind of impression of ambrosia, gamers out here might get if you you are really tolerating this. As far as I thought closing threads like that and calling your customers "chicken" is neither Ambrosia-style nor is it yours. But does anyone else know that?
Yours sincerly, /Lish
editing: ooops - looks like someone edited his posting well ...
(This message has been edited by Lish (edited 03-25-2003).)
Originally posted by andrew: **Folks, <snip> **
Sorry - your post wasn't there when I clicked reply! Do people want to have a discussion about this first? I don't mind somone else taking over instead (though I am very happy to do it) but it would be good to hear what everyone has to say!
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers" -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
Originally posted by Lish: -- snip --
Yes, I did edit my post and yes Andrew did read my original post. The pop-pop tournament rules are posted on Andrew's web page. Those are the rules.
As time goes on, more things will be added. The pop-pop tournament web site is still being created.
Enjoy the tournaments, and let us do our jobs.
Originally posted by anklebiter: **Isn't this just classic? No pop-pop tournaments were happening, or consistantly happening. So I come in and make a pop-pop tournament happen at least once a week. **
this is true and was even mentioned a couple of times in an other thread. it´s not that nobody saw that! and as far as i know everybody thanked you for doing it.
Originally posted by anklebiter: **Then everyone comes by and starts trying to tell me what to do, even though before I came along, no one would get off their butt and do what I did. So, you all better make up your minds what you want. **
you yourself said after the last tournament: "management is far from perfect.." and there were obviously some mistakes in the last tournament. everybody suggested their ideas of a better way to do it, and i think nobody - or at least almost nobody - wanted to offend you. we were only looking for better ways to do it, for ways where the rules were clear enough to make sure nobody would get upset and a host of a tournament could not be criticized afterwards, because he would only be following the rules. hykos system would be perfect for this. none of that discussion was "anti-anklebiter", it was only "pro-tournament".
Originally posted by anklebiter: **If you guys want to be in charge, here is the torch, hey-- take the torch! No really, take the torch!! What? You chicken? Take it! If someone can do a better job then I can, then put your money where your mouth is, and do a better job. Don't talk, just do it. I hosted the tournaments to help you all, but if you don't want my help, then I don't want to help you. I am doing just fine being a moderator of this web board. As it stands, the tournament this Saturday is cancelled, unless someone else wants to host it. Maybe Number279 will help you, but don't look to me. **
well, that really is a pity! hyko invited you to host the next tournament using his "system" (i don´t know what else to call it), crono sounded very friendly in all of his posts, and even shoes said that he would be very glad if you hosted it (i was just doing the same thing when you locked the topic "Hyko's tourney-system" - which in my eyes was not necessary and quite hostile -locking it, i mean.). so, obviously we wanted your help. why can´t you see that none of this would have turned against you?? this whole argument is sooooo unnecessary because in the end, all we all wanted was to keep on playing good tournaments and have fun! nothing personal! what is going on????
------------------
(This message has been edited by lumisa (edited 03-25-2003).)
Originally posted by andrew: **People are spending their time to make the tournament run; instead of criticizing, let's see how we can make the tournament work. It is to everyone's benefit. **
Everybody agrees on that and respects those people, who take the time to organize a tournament, and thanks to all those who done this up to now! But I think one should not forget that the main component of a tourney is the players who want to have fun while playing pop-pop. And therefore those should have the right to criticise -or to say it more positive- to make improvement suggestions for the tourney including rules and processes. And nobody should misinterpret critics and engagement as an attempt to break a jag out of anybody's crown. I hope that this discussion comes to an fruitful end soon, to give the survival of a frequently quite centrally organised tournament a chance...
So I presume you want to continue hosting, anklebiter?
I think that's probably for the best, as lumisa says, I don't think anybody on the topic you locked had anything against you personally at all. I actually thought personally that it was going quite well in getting a consensus on what rules should be used.
As to the comment about trying out Hyko's system - my point was was asking you if we should all do it. i.e. to take up Hyko's offer and for you to host with the system, and see what you thought! I hope that was how you read it. I apologise if you got the wrong end of the stick.
If you are finding that hosting is taking up too much of your time, I don't mind shouldering some of the burden - but really, it shouldn't be that much of a 'burden' anyway in my view. Just an excuse to have fun!
From talking to all parties in this little dispute, all I can really glean is that lots of mistakes were made and the people who made them perhaps didn't say sorry quite right afterwards. So (as Ryoko suggested in the other topic) why don't we all cry how sorry we are now, get that over and done with, and put all this behind us?
Just my 2p, FWIW, and I'm sorry for any offence I may have caused earlier. Geesz, there's no way I could say sorry there now without sounding cheesy, was there? It wasn't meant to! Crono
Originally posted by Lish: As far as I thought closing threads like that and calling your customers "chicken" is neither Ambrosia-style nor is it yours. But does anyone else know that?
I agree that closing threads for no reason is not a good idea; as for calling people "chicken" that isn't a particulary helpful thing to do, no.
However, every situation has a context; since I was not present for this, I'm not aware of the context. I'd really appreciate it if we could keep this discussion on the merrits of the tournament, not on personal issues, however.
Originally posted by andrew: **First, let's take a step back: the pop-pop tournament is something that has been organized by people donating their time and hard work to provide an organized forum for you to play in. **
that was very much appreciated and everybody said so. by the way, thats what hyko did - donating his time and work to help the players and the host of a tournament to have a better and easier tournament - more fun and less arguments. - i was just trying to thank and congratulate him when the topic was closed - so i´ll do it here now: great job, hyko! hope we can try it soon. ( i hope this is allowed) anklebiter, i would be very glad if you really changed your mind and hosted the next tournament!
Originally posted by lumisa: **anklebiter, i would be very glad if you really changed your mind and hosted the next tournament! **
I did (ya may have to read the first post again, or refresh your browser)
Originally posted by andrew: I agree that closing threads for no reason is not a good idea; as for calling people "chicken" that isn't a particulary helpful thing to do, no.
I said I couldn't commit to Hyko's tournament system in another thread, and then SHOES starts a new thread, stating, "...I hope you continue to host tourneys while using Hyko's pages, that would surely be good for everyone."
I had already stated that I wasn't ready to commit, and the person continued to push the issue. When you emailed the email list with your message, I decided to close the other thread so we wouldn't have 2 threads about the same thing, and this one was a little more on track with the current debate.
Originally posted by anklebiter: **I did (ya may have to read the first post again, or refresh your browser) **
oh good!!! didn´t see that yet.
Originally posted by Crono: **So (as Ryoko suggested in the other topic) why don't we all cry how sorry we are now, get that over and done with, and put all this behind us? **
even though we were asked to keep the topic strictly on the rules, i wanted to say that after the tournament i accepted the following as an apology:
Originally posted by anklebiter: **So please, management is far from perfect, but at least it is happening. **
since i apologized already, i won´t bore anyone by doing it again.
I really had a few laughs in this thread.
But as it developed I found, not everythintg is as funny as it looked to me in the beginning. It is more about silly now.
Note to everyone: This is a board on the internet dealing 'bout a little online-game, having worldwide about 20 players!!! LOL - this is so redicolous.
Don't get me wrong. I was in that trouble. Cos I like that game. It's probably the best piece of software Ambrosia ever did! I also really like those game-mates, great community, I appreciate to be part of it!
But as for me that goes too far now.
Somebody wants "total control" over tourney-rules? Change them, whenever he wants and even make this a rule!?! Wow! Asks for obedience inside the tourneys and doesn't like to questioned? Likes to disconnect, when playing a tourney-game he's about to lose himself? But wants some respect as the official host of tourney-game of this minimal importance? Ok. Great. Have it your way.
No problem with this - I don't have to participate, cos as I said: it is just a game!
But what is going on here right now makes me wanna ... I'm done with it so far.
I don't wanna attack nobody particular. But as long as a certain "leadership" advances on this board I am out.
cu @ the lounge /Lish
I have read all of the post, and everything has been considered. Right now, I am going to leave everything as it is. At a later time, things may change. Not now. I also expect that everyone can let the dust settle (let this issue go) and move on. I am asking nice, we both know where everyone stands.
Originally posted by anklebiter: I am asking nice, we both know where everyone stands.
You don't know where I stand yet! I was going to make a big long post about the state of the community and the tournaments and all, but in view of everything that's been said so far I won't. Not now anyways.
------------------ 'You know, if every major appliance in my home had a "bacon" button I'd be the happiest guy alive.' (url="http://"http://squibix.net")Squibix Web(/url)
Originally posted by Danny: You don't know where I stand yet! I was going to make a big long post about the state of the community and the tournaments and all, but in view of everything that's been said so far I won't. Not now anyways.
Hee hee. I want to see YOU at the tournament on Saturday! YOU!