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Well, since my original idea fell through the floor, or roof - I've decided to make a new one. This is not wholly aimed at makings for an RPG. It can (in my case for instance) be just a rant about what I think would make an interesting universe. For specs on the original one go (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum11&topic;=000238")here(/url). That ended up being mostly about ships and technology, something which needs to be rectified. Now I have thought a bit about it.
First off; to make my universe, I took into hand a basic consideration of human nature:
Humans operate as a collective; though it does not need to be telepathic. There will be strong motion towards collectivity in any large planetary grouping. Please note this renders a good deal of fiction around future civilisations irrelevant. Humans just do not nuke their own species to death. Or do, similar things of that nature. This is true as long as people develop like they do now (another big if). Having a common language, a common culture, will strengthen collectivity, and having a different language, or culture, will tend to make people remain somewhat distant.
Now to my universe:
In my universe, I'll assume that settling other planets (travelling what, hundreds of light years) seperates people from the common group unconscious (i.e., Earthist). In early years, this difference would not be great, but as the population of the new world grows and becomes more established it takes on a unique identity. After a good many generations, the inhabitants might no longer act as though Earth-born were really 'human' (despite having almost exactly the same physical characteristics.) This distance has forced them to develop their own collective. Also, while evolution proceeds over 100's of millions of years, there are several quick changes that can happen over about 10 generations. On a heavy G world, people might tend to be a bit shorter. Thus, you could tell someone was a i.e. Gratthi because they were short and dense. They would also react to you as if you were truly an outsider. People from other planets would become less sociable quite quickly if regular communication was not kept up.
Settlement: Galactic settlement has proceeded in all places within the Barrier (covered later). Earth originally settled the nearby world Aleph 9 (called Dawn), and then the next one 50 years later. It was during this settlement that they first noticed the 'sociality shift' between interactions of Dawn-born and Earth-born humans. There was a lot of social unrest about the matter, and SG (it is referred to as simply 'Sol Government' instituted compulsory labour and education exchange with increased trade. This fixed the problem somewhat, and in the modern day era, they regard themselves as being fairly close.
SG's influence extends only as far as it can fund such constant interaction. It stopped settling worlds at about 15. These are run as a single government called the USC (United Sol Confederation). The USC restricts interaction between the other Fifteen, naturally, and almost all transport takes place on the exceedingly busy spaceways above Earth.
Over-colonisation in the early days resulted in several planets being settled that were simply too far away from Earth. These planets (there were 5) grew colder and colder towards Earth, at the same time settling other planets to create their own empire. They were however, rather weak in terms of manpower, and the other colonies tended to break off themselves as the 'sociality shift' became more pronounced. The colonies, settled in a pentagon at more or less equal angles from Earth, began a wave of colonisation that would end with the occupation of 1/2 of our arm of the galaxy. Colonies outside the Fifteen are recognised as being either Qelthas, Aerniac, Terebell, Olothian, or Renegeen (names subjected to change). The Founder worlds did not rule over their colonies for long, and only Olothian maintains more than 3 colony worlds. Although this is the case, when space began to run out (Earth is around the upper centre of an arm of the galaxy, there is more space down to the body of the galaxy naturally than at the tip), settlers from all factions started colonising around the Expanse nearer the centre of the galaxy. This is called the Scattering, as there are many worlds with Founder culture scattered pellmell around the place. This expansion was stopped by the Barrier.
The Barrier:
The form of travel used to cover interstellar distances (tachyon physics) do not operate in Barrier space. This is defined as space southward of Earth, that begins almost at the midway mark of our arm of the galaxy. It appears to be curved slightly outwards, indicating that the effect must be huge - originating from the centre of the galaxy to cover all 4 arms in a similar effect.
Technology:
Probability Physics:
What we know today of probability and chance is little more than how to calculate exactly the odds of something occurring. In the future, probability can not only be calculated, it can be fixed. There is a chance for everything. There is a chance that your atoms, all of them, could suddenly re-materialise around Alpha Centauri. Though this chance might be smaller than 1:all the superstrings in the universe, it is still a chance. Using an arcane technology developed by the Juniper Project AI's, the chances for various simple actions can be fixed. The simpler action, the simpler it is to program the P (probability machine) to fix the action. Space travel is achieved by use of a P, to manipulate the chance that all the atoms in a spaceship are altered into tachyons (faster than light atoms). This can be fixed quite easily, for although the chances of turning into tachyons is remote, it is a simple operation. The P gathers the probability of it occurring and activates at 1:1 odds. The ship's P then boots the ship out of tach when it arrives at a suitable destination (the better the P, the more it can be 'tachyoned'. Early ships travelled only a slightly faster than light. Modern ones can go at several hundred times light speed.) Stargates operate on this principle as well, making use of a 2 way system to help the P detemine the location. It is somewhat exorbitant in terms of cost, but the effect is instantaneous - by manipulation of the chances, a spaceship's atoms can rematerialise in a system hundreds of lightyears away.
As you can imagine, this can also be used for weapons and all form of combat, domestic fun, etc...
PhegSpheres:
Near Earth in the east side of the galaxy is a collection of long dead colony worlds from another race. Though the cities of this race (who were called the Pheg's) have long since been excavated and robbed, there is one thing that they had in abundance: PhegSpheres. It is perhaps one of the few things that scientist's have been unable to replicate in Pheg technology. However, these spheres were perhaps as abundant in Pheg culture as the common tv is today. Billions of Pheg spheres were stolen from the Pheg digs and cities and proliferated the galactic Earth community. They are remarkable for their 'empathic' as it were, abilities. An ordinary human, in close range of PhegSphere, has his/her emotions amplified around them. This can be any emotion, love, hate etc... humans near the PhegSphere feel this emotion in clarity equal to the intensity divided by the number affected, with several interesting and obvious results. If there is a collision of users, the PhegSphere becomes a veritable muddle of emotion and is useless. When used as a weapon, the PhegSphere strips the weaker person of any semblance of collectivism. 'Absolute individuals', they lose there ability to feel empathy with other humans, or indeed cruelty. They are referred to as 'droners', because they tend to wander aimlessly. It should be noted that these individuals are no longer affected in any way by a PhegSphere. Droners tend to take their possessions and leave humanity, settling on uninhabited nearly-abandoned planets. The number of droners is steadily increasing, as droners multiply and children are not born with empathic emotions. They are excellent mercenary fighters, having little or no fear, or sense of pain/pleasure.
Wars:
War happens quite often, depending on how different people's collective identities have become, and just ordinary diplomacy. Spaceship combat is handled via a variety of weapons, mostly covered in the original Session. At ground level, troops are armed with P-Guns and p-armour. Generally, such weapons do not come with their own P, but have a static charge in their battery of Probability for the set task. One can fire only so many shells at a trooper wearing p-armour at point blank range, before the probability's of a collision become simply too great. Of course, and equal probabilty with armour and weapon tend to negate the effects. Despite it's widespread use, P technology is still relatively high-level as ground combat, and most colonies except the old established ones use normal weapons.
Castes:
There are some castes, and there is a high-level test the government uses to determine how suitable people are for different castes. Suitability for a caste is normally not genetically based. Genetic technology btw, is practiced, - but rarely. There is too great a danger of contaminating the gene pool - or so the governments of the era think.
------------------ There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
(This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 02-02-2002).)
Just keepin' her afloat until I can find the time and inspiration to reply to this BEAST
I'm glad it's been read.
(This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 02-05-2002).)
I have great respect for your ability to generate a universe, a talent which i too am glad to marginally possess, although with this trait i come across the thought that too many cooks spoil the broth, i have but a suggestion to add to your universe. Your universe is quite decent, although not of the rpg type in my mind, i believe to make it more rpg available, it is neccesary to severly limit the uses of P-tech, make it unbuildable by standards of the modern universe, transforming it into a rare technology, greatly sought after, killed for. add a plot element, if you see what i mean. the object of the rpg would be to go after the ancient <insert name> class AI, which can calculate any P (including tachyondrive) in seconds, making it somewhat like a god, the location of the AI is unknown, but there is only one of the AI.
------------------ It's Difficult To Comprehend How Insane Some People Can Be. Especially When You're Insane.
another thought (im trying to avoid my homework here...) one character could be naturally lucky (hint hint ringworld), making the P for him much easier, while a normal person would have a 1:10 chance of succeding, he/she would have a 1:5. This would make luck be a large aspect in your universe.
OK, everyone who's reminded of something by Pyro's idea, jump up and shout "Outlaw Star".
I think P technology should be limited, PERIOD. A computer able to calculate it for EVERYTHING would need to literally contain the same space and matter as the universe. It will always take one particle to totally represent one particle. A=A.
BTW I really think I'd prefer your previous idea, w/ the ancient, corrupt empire.
This one sounds fine, tho.
------------------ Seen on a Claymore anitpersonell mine: "Do not eat"
I'll agree with everyone else that the P-tech ought to be limited, though not gone. Very rare, probably in the hands of the elite, military and perhaps some very enterprising pirates. Throw in the kicker that it's unreliable due to probability failing or just plain odd side-effects of playing with what could be and it'd sound good. Kinda reminds me of HGttG and the Infinite Probability drive. Beware of Vogons.
I like the idea that the individual planets become independent from Earth because of distance and such, and that without almost constant interaction between planets, people tend to draw within themselves. This is a real theory, and certainly not a new idea. Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy deals with the same thing on a smaller scale. Those people sent to Mars to colonize the rock got independent and decided to set up their own nation separate from Earth.
The Phegspheres are an interesting piece of machinery (if that). Why some culture created what appears to be an empathic sink or collector is unfathomable. Maybe they make use of the empathic energies that they draw off of people, or they just have that particular effect on humans and not on their creators or other species.
------------------ "That was quick." "Well you know, when you don't do it right it doesn't take as long."
I like the luck idea. Luck is a weak force in this universe. A very weak force. When it comes moving mountains, gravity wins every time, but luck is a force none the less. It gathers around objects, and there is a natural occurring "luck field" around any object. Sometimes, when extreme coincedences occur, the luck field is put onto an object, aka, a lucky shirt, or some such trinket. Sucessive uses of said object only serve to increase the lucky objects power as it absorbs the released luck entropy and converts it back to raw luck for discharge.
The exact methods of this process are unknown, but rabbits feet are suddenly becoming scarce around the P-Tech labs.
------------------ NEW NAME FOR THE DREADNOUGHT The Hard-Boiled Egg Why? Because she cant be beaten!
Wow! Nice response.
Pyro: I assume by ancient AI you mean an AI not built by man? I'm holding back on super-races here (bad monolith, no biscuit!)
P-technology in the universe is limited, and very limited in regards to complexity. The only power capable of building complex P-machines is the USC, which is very influential (very complex defined as Stargates).
Words:
The (Juniper Project) AI's were built by the Sol Government to reason and deduct what material on the system wide internet should be censored for purposes of the SG (mainly for purposes of unification). The SG soon realised that it's toy was being wasted. A new AI system, a supercomputer, was developed and built near Luna. It was programmed to assist scientist's in their computations. But it soon however, took on an entirely new role...
The only problem with the AI's was a tendency to over-complexify. As time went on, the AI's craved greater complexity to perform the higher-level calculations it deemed necessary for the fulfilment of a given project. Think of the Marathon AI's, but instead of space, calculation speed. The AI's were useless when it reached the limits of it's current systems, and one of it's directives was eventually to program it's own future upgrades. The last generation of it's use was the time it developed not only Probability related physics, but many other sciences (like for instance, stasis fields) which have aided and enlarged mankind's knowledge of the universe. Complexity has a finite limit though, and at last, the system it designed was unbuildable. The Juniper Project AI was re-created a few more times (only by the SG and USC, it's cost was titanic) to the same failures. At last the project was dropped forever. There have been no attempts to reverse engineer the PhegSpheres using a late-model Juniper AI so far, this is best utilised for a plot point, because the revelations would have startling consequences for the individual possessing this knowledge.
The Pheg's:
The Pheg civilisation was an empathic one. The PhegSphere's were developed to aid the Pheg's in projecting their thoughts upon other beings. In the presence of Humans, the PhegSpheres are able to project nothing but the raw emotions, humans lacking the particular thought patterns the sphere's were built to recognise. The reason that they cannot be deciphered by scientists is that the construction (PhegSphere's) use circuitry that actually speaks 'Pheg', much unlike our circuitry which utilises binary. Otherwise, Pheg technology is certainly far behind human technology. They possessed early model fusion engines, no P technology (they actually built giant colony ships to bridge the stars, another reason why there are not many Pheg colonies) and their electronic's - far clumsier than ours. Pheg civilisation died out at different times on different worlds. The last pheg colony to die out died about 100,000 years after the first. Historians hypothese that the inability to advance their own science for many, many millenia seems to have destroyed the Pheg's spirit to survive. The last Pheg colony died about 700,000 years before 0 AD. In terms of galactic time, we came indeed very close to meeting them in the flesh.
(This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 02-06-2002).)
Quote
Originally posted by Joveia: ** Pyro: I assume by ancient AI you mean an AI not built by man? I'm holding back on super-races here (bad monolith, no biscuit!)
**
more like built by humans in a previous age and...
--the dangers of P-jumps: One must consider the time an effort it would take an AI to calculate a P-jump to an EXACT location. This would be a "1 and infentesimal" chance of doing it, making even the greatest P-calcualtors useless. If one wants to travel anywhere fast, you would have to p-jump to a random place about "1/52 of a light year^3" (allowing you to be within a week of any other ships of your fleet.). this comes with dangers, you could P-jump yourself directly into another ship! The accuracy of P-jumps and time issues of attack would be a vital strategy for military commanders.
--The harbinger: My proposed name for any P-cannon: There would be two types of P-weaponary, death, and hit styles. The death style would calcualte the P of both hitting and fatally injuring, every time it fires, it kills, hence the name "harbinger". The other style, more common*, would only calculate hit; it would hit every time, but not neccasarilly a kill, much faster firing rate.
*common is a relative term, a "common" P-weapon would probably still be very rare
It's not about 'jumping' it's about converting. Jumping is for Stargates. A ship that converts proceeds warp-drive style to it's destination. The chances of actually appearing inside another ship are infinitesimal.
The complexity required to kill something via probability would be simply staggering.
Think of it not as a probability to instantly kill something, but for the probability of an auxiliary weapon (attached to the harbringer) to hit a vital spot.
You might take an ordinary sniper rifle, and build a Harbringer component around it. Then, the accuracy of the sniper rifle, combined with the number of places that could fatally injure the other combatant, would yield a probability high enough for the sniper rifle to work effectively. The down side of this is that it is calculating the probability to hit vital places on humans. It's of little effect vs. anything else.
------------------ Ā CCS Sacred Promise (DE H c-3) o SCS Pillar of Autumn Our conviction is like an arrow already in flight. Your life will only last until it reaches you.
Originally posted by Pallas Athene: **Think of it not as a probability to instantly kill something, but for the probability of an auxiliary weapon (attached to the harbringer) to hit a vital spot.
yeah, thanks for clearing that up.
I didnt mean it as a "jump" persay, that was a bad choice of words, the chance may be small, but since there is no way to compensate for it by P-calcualting (because the AI would be tachyons). I suspect that two ships materializing into each other may cause a caticylsmic explosion that could be quite devastating, no?
Anyways... What kind of weapons do people use in this universe, i would like to know? Tell me about some of the more basic stuff that is in this universe, not just P-tech.
(edit for more info) Oh a proposed plot element: The AI mentioned in an earlier post should be in some backwater world. People worship it as a god in its metal shrine. They pray to it, and if it so desires it can answer almost any prayer (given proper calculation time of course). This AI is somewhat of a legend in other systems, it is a weapon of mass mass destruction if used properly, and many search for it, not even thinking that it could have looked like a god. (/edit)
(This message has been edited by Pyro (edited 02-07-2002).)
Hm what I would think as far as weapons that are still used, probably some sort of charged plasma projection system for the common man's weapon. However, I still like the idea of the trusty ol' Glock 9mm hanging around. Caseless by this point, probably almost no recoil and better bullet design for superior penetration and damage.
Projectile weapons (i.e. pulse rifles) that fire some sort of projectile would still be in high demand by the military and civilians for their easy maintenence and high availability. Humans will not soon get away from projectile weapons and for good reason. They're powerful. However, the nature of the projectile is up in the air. Charged particle packets are certainly possible, though they would not have the armor penetration of a solid slug they would certainly have an increased amount of damage to unarmored targets as well as damage through armor to the target beneath. Ammunition will probably be the primary variant. P-tech is easily integrated with projectile weapons as it is much simpler to change the probability that a single ballistic projectile will score a hit than.
Energy weapons, man portable kinds are much rarer and in all likelehood more powerful for certain applications. Agaist people without armor, energy weapons will tear through them. However, the cost of carting around that much energy in a magazine of some sort rather than the potential energy of a propelled projectile makes the payoff difficult to see. Plasma projectors that are basically a hand held flamethrower can melt walls, armored targets and people with equal ease. Laser weapons are probably not man portable because of the large energy sources necessary for their effectivness.
Artillery/Ship weapons. Artillery will probably be a mix between conventional shells, mass-drivers, high-energy plasma shells which is a wad of superheated plasma encased in a magnetic sphere which when it hits its target releases the plasma on it. Insta-boil. Also, laser artillery is certainly possible. Tanks mounted with plasma projectors are lethal at close range and can broil the occupants of an opposing tank quite easily. Long range attacks will still rely on projectiles (lasers don't go through sand-berms well. APFSDSDU rounds do. ). Ship weapons will mount more energy weapons as coherent energy in space doesn't have atmosphere to degrade the power of the focused beam of a laser. Cannons that fire pulses of charged particles add a small kinetic force behind a high-energy attack that can damage shipboard electronics as well as cause heat stress to the hull. Projectile weapons are good for pierceing the hull, but have the drawback of not moving quite fast enough for long range attacks in space. Energy weapons move at a significant % of c, thus making precision firing a better possibility. Guided missiles haven't fallen out of use though, and swarms of anti-ship missiles I could easily see being common.
phew. That is my humble take on what the weapons may be like. If you don't like it Joveia, that's fine because I wrote it while I was sleepy and probably missed something here and everywhere. Please change and comment as all see fit.
bows goodnight.
This is probably going to be my first and only reply to any thing on this topic but if probability tec can be used to make a sniper rifle more accurate, then you could use it to make a long ranged hand held version of El Spamo's ship based plasma cannon. By using micro magnets shot in formation to contain the plasma and the probability comp to make sure the magnets stay in formation untill the target is hit (therefor braking the formation and releasing the plasma). This could be rather a effective (but probably rare and unwieldy) weapion. I don't know if this is realy posible but its one more idea.
Sorry if i'm braking the flow of this topic but i've got lots of ideas on this subject.
------------------ "Time is only a guide line"
(This message has been edited by 9024 (edited 02-08-2002).)
If any one wants my ideas on this topic, Just Ask.
(did not see your post 9024, will respond later)
Technology and weapons were covered in the previous brain of session. (See top post).
As to the harbinger: Look, this is not supposed to be a complex science. I don't see how adding instant-kill weapons will significantly enrich the storyline. You seem to harbour the illusion that without this enhancement, the Mega-Gauss TX-9000 will be harmless. I assure you, weapons technology will be painful.
Some more on ground weapons:
Buzz: (Inspired by Fifth Element.) Once a target is acquired by the weapon, a 'smart' bullet will attempt to follow. I'd imagine a minitiarised plasma rocket & thrusters. Of course, this weapon will not come with a probability device. It is also semi-automatic. The bullet has some major pushing power, with an explosion tipped warhead (also plasma.)
Gauss Cannon: This cannon fires a large slug that 'tunnels' (passes through) matter. The atom compactness (strength) of the matter is naturally irrelevant. Once it has passed through, it explodes. The payload may vary (could be nerve-gas for instance).
E/M Gun: (Inspired by 'The Gap' series) Since all matter is indeed energy, and energy matter, the forms needed to convert one to the other have become simpler with time. The E/M (energy/matter) Gun is a very advanced converter hybrid. Upon firing, a slug is converted in several dimensions to it's equivalent energy (becomes light). Then upon contact with matter, it re-forms into our dimensions and strikes it's target at near-light speed and 100 times the mass. Flat-trajectory artillery, also dangerous to spaceships.
Shockgun: The 38th century shotgun. The 'shockgun' bases it's firing method on it's predecessor. That is, an explosion as a propulsion for a projectile. In this case, the explosion is on high-intensity plasma discharge. The walls of the carbine are synthetically crafted to be both extremely strong and shock-absorbing. Upon firing, the bullet is often shattered, resulting in a lethal firing arc. This gun is relatively cheap and has a considerable punch (passes through steel like butter, in other words.)
Plasma Rifle: This is a laser weapon that is powered by plasma cartridges. Unlike artillery/ship lasers, it's power source cannot be used constantly, but in bursts. The light it fires is extremely dangerous to organic targets, nor does it lose potency or accuracy with range.
Hyper Cannon: This is an anti-spaceship weapon. It operates in a similar mode to the E/M gun, gathering power until it can convert it to matter. The matter it creates exists in several dimensions simultaneously however, and travels extremely fast, not to be deterred by atmosphere or armour. Unshielded, it goes straight through a spaceship, leaving a pretty incision.
Bazookoid: (Inspired by Red Dwarf) A missile launcher that fires a simple warhead. Upon collision, the warhead explodes in a shower of plasma. It is homing.
May finish later. Appreciates help. Head hurt from type.
(This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 02-08-2002).)
What happens if you get stuck in an alley and the fight gets a bit close for comfort? What about close combat weps like swords or the simple dagger. The edged weapions I think could use some sort of force field to tare what ever your stabbing apart, or electrified to shortcircuit electronics and give people paralising shocks. You could also have sawbladed knuckle dusters with the force field as well.
I like the Hyper Cannon Joveia. I've got lots more ideas where that came from (I should realy stop saying that).
These seem to be sorts of "Heavy Weaponry." I'll add another possibility for this, and propose a few Light types.
Swarm Cannon: Firing the Swarm Cannon creates a large quantity (25-30) of small explosive charges to spew from the barrel of the swarm cannon in all directions. When the trigger is released, the Cannon transmits a unique signal on a unique frequency, causing the projectiles to activate strong electromagnets. The projectiles then quickly gravitate towards the nearest metallic target. Naturally, there are jammers for this sort of technology, capable of determining signal frequency and message, and causing them to start homing prematurely. However, such jammers are exorbitantly expensive.
Plasma Pistol: The smaller sibling of the Plasma Rifle. Pulses can be charged for increased damage, but this will render the pistol useless for a few vital seconds.
Hypo Gun: Wrist mounted and easily concealable, this weapon is preferred by those who wish to capture their prey rather than kill.
Plasthrower: Outlawed on most planets, the Plasthrower is designed to release and maintain the plasma in commonplace plasma batteries. It can fire continuously for 3 seconds, at a maximum range of up to 5 feet. It can be devastating towards whatever it is fired at, but continuous use will also affect the wielder.
Carbine: A standard automatic short-barreled rifle, adaptable to carry numerous kinds of ammunition, including Armor-Piercing, Explosive, and Shock Pulse. In more unruly areas, it is not uncommon to see soldiers with multiple carbines strapped to the waist, each loaded with a different kind of ammunition.
Bladed Whips: Bladed Whips are more commonly known as a "Knife-in-the-boxes," - When swung, a blade will shoot out from a narrow cylinder to the end of an electrified wire, and be quickly drawn back. The knife itself can severely injure an unarmored target, and the wire connecting will shock anything it comes into contact with.
For close combat, I assume without any guns at hand; you might use P-sword. It would operate with P of course, when activated, would execute a 'flawed' tunneling. Essentially passing through most of the skin and any body armour, then come into existence around the vital organs.
I don't think the Swarm cannon, though elegant, would be very effective. Perhaps more of a flak cannon (like in UT) that fires a ball of plasma that bursts, throwing shrapnel everywhere.
The plasthrower would not have a range like a flamethrower, more like 1/2 kilometre.
Oh yeah, btw, I think I'll have to wrap up things on this board. Bye everyone.
(This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 02-09-2002).)