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All the time I've been visiting these web boards, I've been interested in how we use the boards to talk to people in a delayed way. What I mean is, I'll read a question and write a reply, but between the time I read and finished my reply, someone else had written an answer. That got me thinking that it might be possible to make a quasi-multiplayer EVx that worked in a similar way. I know about the various projects being worked on to produce a multiplayer EV based game, but I'm talking about something much more basic in structure and how it works.
It would be kind of turn based in the way it worked. Since the EVO pilot file structure is understood, one could write a application that uploads information from a player's pilot file to a sort of online pilot database. The database would include info like what syst/spob the player was last in, what kind of ship they fly (including the options they have), and what missions they are running. In addition, certain "universal" states would be uploaded as well: what spobs are dominated, visbits set, what one-of-a-kind missions had been completed, etc.
Each time a player wants to play in the shared universe, he launches an appl that queries the shared database. This appl then makes changes to the players pilot file (if needed), but it also automatically makes a plug-in that contains information reflecting what's in the database. Example: each player in the database would be a pers appearing only in the syst that player was last in, in the same ship and with the outfits that player has. Dominated spobs would appear as being controled by a new govt. If a player named Bob conquored Sol, than Sol's govt would be Bobian. You get the idea.
When you quit EVO, this same hypothetical application would upload your pilot file database.
So, while this proposal would not allow for head-to-head multiplayer gaming, it would create a shared universe that would change each time one entered it.
There are, of course, problems. Custom plugins for one; one person has a cheat while others don't. I suppose this could be worked around by having this appl check and see what plugs the player is running. Also, problems with mutual-exclusiveness pop up. Because the players are not interacting in real time, they could both conquor a planet, or maybe they both complete an exclusive mission. Still, I find the idea interesting and believe it would be possible.
Ok. Attack away. :eek:
-STH
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i don't want to get into details but this would not work. not very well anyway. but like i said i don't want to get into details..
Whoops, posted twice...
(This message has been edited by Hornet (edited 01-12-2001).)
This certainly sounds like the most realistic idea for an EV/O multiplayer I've seen. But it would only allow for two players on the whole thing (at least, in my opinion). And who's going to sit there and program it?
You woulden't believe the amount of ideas for multiplayer EV/O games I've seen...
------------------ Hornet ------------------ (url="http://"HTTP://WWW.v-west.in2home.co.uk/zac/zac.html")My cool EV/O website(/url) Email:
"We want multi-player EV! We want multi-player EV!" Get a clue, morons, YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT!
(Lay off with the flaming insults, all right?--Jude)
Go take some basic programming classes, and you'll realize something very quickly: Porting a single-player game, particularily an RPG, to multiplayer, TAKES A LOT OF TIME.
Let's see... for starters, the engine would require a total rewrite to do anything of the sort. Second, the datafiles would require restructuring to account for the fact that one planet can only be of a particular government (Say... if multi-player EV existed, how would you handle disappearing planets or planetary takeovers anyways?)
Thirdly, there would need to be a tremendous amount of changes to BALANCE IT. All the incoming newbie shuttlecrafts would be squashed flat by beefed-up Kestrels and other various warships. There could be a clan of 10 people that could just cross the galaxy wiping out every comprehendable defense fleet, taking over the galaxy with no resistance except other clans.
What would happen to the story? It would be virtually impossible to make one involving ANY of the planets, because they would be constantly shifting control from one conquerer to another. It would be virtually impossible to make one involving ships either, because "troublemakers" would invariably just blow up the story ships to screw with everyone. So what's left? Subspace communicating races talk to each other for storyline?
There would be no trade! Why? Because encroaching "hostile" people would just blow up trade ship after trade ship to loot them. The only way to PLAY a multi-player EV would be to rush as fast as you could to the biggest, most bad-*** fighting war machine in the game, and even then, you'd be up against equals in no time flat.
What would fake IDs do anyways? All the planets would be individual-controlled, so who would be left to honor them?
What would happen to the flexibility that EV is so praised for? You wouldn't be able to make plug-ins or mods of any sort, because the risk of someone just making some 40-missile megalauncher or Quantumflux Deathray would be far too great.
You may say government problems could be fixed by alliances. Wow, THAT would really screw the AI over. You attack ship: Ship is now mad at who?
Hey, come to think of it... How would missions be handled? You would need several missions for each of the thousands of players that would indulge in such a thing. Sorry, but making enough missions to pass the test of time that is dished out by multiplayer games, especially for such a large volume of potential players, would take eons.
How would you handle those asteroids, which really just loop the screen? Yup, that's right! There would really need to be HUNDREDS of asteroids in each system, individually tracked. Talk about processor lag on the server side!
Then there's the server writing, latency adjustment, double-KO compensation, anti-hacking stuffs... Hey, I'm not nearly as good of a programmer as Ambrosia's "pro team," but something tells me that multi-player EV isn't happening any time soon... Hey, play Terminus if you want, but EV is single-player forever... PERIOD!
(This message has been edited by Tern-WEBTERRORISM (edited 01-12-2001).)
(Tern, watch your language, and please do not flame people--Jude)
(This message has been edited by Jude (edited 01-13-2001).)
Your assuming that it is being used to play over the internet. I would assume that a multiplayer EV would be great for LAN. Anyone remember NetTrek? That game wasn't playable over the internet yet was very popular amoung multiplayer legions. I think a LAN version would be better than a internet version if just based on the fact that cheating can be controlled and maybe even lead to some interesting things. EVLAN... hmm.... Oh well, that's my idea.
------------------ "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." -Bill Cosby Star Trek Escape Velocity (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/startrekev/")http://homepage.mac.com/startrekev/(/url)
Quote
Originally posted by Metzen: **Your assuming that it is being used to play over the internet. I would assume that a multiplayer EV would be great for LAN. Anyone remember NetTrek? That game wasn't playable over the internet yet was very popular amoung multiplayer legions. I think a LAN version would be better than a internet version if just based on the fact that cheating can be controlled and maybe even lead to some interesting things. EVLAN... hmm.... Oh well, that's my idea.
**
Fact of the matter is, LAN-specific games never fared well after the Internet took off. Look at ANY LAN-based multiplayer game, and it has single-player mode and/or Internet playability. This is because using the kind of resources needed to make such a game, particularily one of EV-calliber, and making it usable only by corporate networks, schools, and people lucky enough to have multiple G3s in their house hooked through an ethernet hub or two is a waste of marketting power because the target audience is simply too small for it to sell.
------------------ W E B T E R R O R I S M !! The lifestyle of the poor and infamous!!!
Originally posted by Tern-WEBTERRORISM: "We want multi-player EV! We want multi-player EV!" Get a clue, morons, YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT!...Go take some basic programming classes, and you'll realize something very quickly: Porting a single-player game, particularily an RPG, to multiplayer, TAKES A LOT OF TIME.
Wow. Toasty warm.
I wasn't suggesting a multiplayer EV. Think of what I proposed as more of a turn based EV.
PS- Nice to see someone else from Ambrosia's hometown. MCC, RIT, UofR? Let me guess, RIT, but can't be CSH.... No one uses Macs on floor. Do you read GDT? ------------------
(This message has been edited by seant (edited 01-15-2001).)
Originally posted by seant: ...I wasn't suggesting a multiplayer EV. Think of what I proposed as more of a turn based EV...
Isn't that the same as all those EV/O RPGs?
------------------ Those who are blinded by the light shall stumble in the darkness... Visit the (url="http://"http://pub40.ezboard.com/bthecatacomb")Unofficial EV Webboard(/url)! (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro &default;=")USE ME, DAMNIT!!!(/url)
Yea pretty much, and in that case its already done.
Of course, it would be a lot more true to the form he's talking about if the RPGs were automated, which they aren't....yet.
CS
Ah, visions of a younger Rooster...
If anybody remembers, i originally planned a Red Coroco MP just like what your saying. My ideas were much based on just player to player stuff and there were alot of the things Tern spoke about to be addressed. I never really thought of an app to run all of it; if it was a relatively small audience and you put alot of work and consideration into it, it might work. Or at least i'll be proud of you. Anyway, i gave up on it, and it probably isn't a very good idea for anybody to do.
------------------ It is not fear that will destroy you, but the absence of it.
ok. how about making an EVish version of Planetarion( (url="http://"http://www.planetarion.com")www.planetarion.com(/url) ). You could make a pretty similar version of Planetarion that would work well with EV.
Except in this version instead of you ruling a planet you would move from planet to planet. Each jump(like in Planetarion) would take a few hours(real time) depending on your engine and your position to the destination. When you dock on a planet/station you would get options such as refuelling, buying goods, missions, chatting(in the bar. possibly via IRC), and outfitting your ship. When refuelling and buying goods it could take about one tick or maybe no time at all. Missions would be like a web board. You could post a mission offering nCredits for the destruction of ___ and the server would take care of payment on completion etc.. You could also get mission in the bar(chat) but you wouldn't be sure if the guy would pay(or if the guy would complete the mission). Outfitting your ship could take no-time to several hours depending on the type of upgrade. Combat would be a little different. Each planet/station would have a certain amount of docking space (so if there are several large ships docked you might not be able to dock) or to keep things simple just docking 'slots'(where each ship takes one slot). While docked you cannot be attacked and are safe(as long as the planet/station is safe). But if you stay floating in space you are in danger of an attack. Since you can't always stay at the computer(for those of us with a life) and you might not be able to dock there would be an option to select a certain script when attacked(such as 'Always Retreat', 'Always Attack', 'Attack until x% shields/armor is left', etc...). And you would get a ceratin amount of time before the attack starts(ex. Your battlecomp tells you a hostile ship is approaching ETA x hours). The time until attacked could be determined by the speed of each ship and initiative would determine which ship would open fire first. The speed would also help determine if you were hit by a certain weapon(every weapon would also have a speed setting too as well as damage, rate of fire etc...). Of course if your 'away script' was set to attack the time until attack would be shorter as your ship would move toward the attacker, giving the attacker an alarm too. Also when you are in a system the system would have militia to help you(if they like you or if the government is something like UE). Or if the planet was owned by a player/alliance and you were allied with that player/alliance they would help you.
Here are some examples: WEAPONS: Laser Cannon: -Weapon Speed: 30 -Damage: 1 -Recharge Rate: 1 -Charge Time: 1
Laser Turret: -Weapon Speed: 60 -Damage: 1 -Recharge Rate: 2 -Charge Time: 1
Plasma Turret: -Weapon Speed: 15 -Damage: 4 Recharge Rate: 1 -Charge Time: 2
Ship A: -Ship Speed: 25 -Initiative: 5 -Shields: 20 -Armor: 20 -Fuel: 5 -Hyperdrive: 5 -Cargo: 10 -Current Weapons: 1 Laser cannon, 1 laser turret -Script: Attack until 20% shield/armor
Ship B: -Ship Speed: 20 -Initiative: 3 -Shields: 15 -Armore: 20 -Fuel: 3 -Hyperdrive: 8 -Cargo: 5 -Current Weapons: 1 Laser canon, 1 plasma turret
In this example if Ship B were to attack Ship A since Ship A's script says attack Ship A would get a warning "Warning! Incoming Hostile Ship B moving at 20. ETA 3 hours" When someone decides to attack someone else the default distance between them could be 100 or anything else. If it were set to 100 since Ship A can move at a speed of 25/tick and Ship B can move 20/tick they would meet during the 3rd tick. Once they meet the battle would start with Ship B firing first since it has a lower initiative. So Ship B fires his/hers laser cannon first(faster charge time than the plasma turret). Damage is calculated and Ship A fires his laser cannon. Damage is calculated and Ship A fires his laser turret(again, a faster charge time). Then Ship B fires his Plasma Turret. So the initiative shows which ship fires first and the charge time decides which weapons fire first. The Recharge rate is how many times the weapon fires each time it opens fire. The weapons speed and the ship speed would be used to calculate the accuracy(whether or not the weapon hit or not). Some other things that example shows is 'the Hyperdrive:5' would mean that that Ship A could move 5(insert unit of distance) in one tick. One tick in hyperspace one consume one unit of fuel.
Something like that could be used to make an EVish Planetarion(of course it would need to be tested and perfected) but the problem is 'Who's gonna code/make it?'. Thats always the problem with "I wanna EVMP!" requests. No one is willing to make them or they give up to soon cause they try to do it without knowing how hard it would be(kberg is an exception though i don't know what happened to him). 'nuf of my opinion.
I hated the masses of ppl on Planetarion and thought about making a better, more exclusive version, but i don't have the skill. I know team stuff usually has problems, but i would love to participate in an effort to create such an online game. I could do interface and design, etc. Anyway, if someone does seriously want to try this, i'm in for it.
Well, first of all, check out (url="http://"http://www.oxy-web.com/uev/")www.oxy-web.com/uev/(/url) first for my version of an EV RPG.
Its essentially the way an rpg can easily work, without any automation (its also going through some serious changes).
Granted, more times than one I have wished for a set-up entirely automated something like planetarion (although probably more exclusive, I doubt there'd be as many players, who knows.
Anyways, it can be done, it'd just take a lot of effort, and a lot of scripting. I don't have the time or will to learn what needs to be done RIGHT now. I know some people that could do it, but I doubt they have the time or will to do anything right now.
So until then, go look at the URL, thats about it.
I like your idea, and I think it has real promise. The problem is that you need a bunch of people to programmers to work on it and, of course, a good server to run it off of. Good luck getting it to work...
Originally posted by Tern-WEBTERRORISM: **"We want multi-player EV! We want multi-player EV!" Get a clue, morons, YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT!
...etc...**
MONKEY!!! MONKEY WITH A DIGITAL SLR CAMERA!!! AND A SMALL VIBRATING PIG!!!
There, now that I've gotten the obvious out of the way... Hi! I'm back! That acursed dial-up... grrr... ahh, T1 goodness. Anyway, I'd just like to say that if people want to discuss EVMP (or any other things like that, for that matter), then let em. If you don't like it, don't go clicking on it and reading it (and spending half an hour typing a reply.... good god!). I mean, really. If you have nothing better to do and enjoy flaming people, go write Microsoft. Let the webboards run their course, even if that course is one previously taken or not feasably possible. Let em fantasize, no? -david-
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com")Meowx Design Studios(/url) Graphics. Games. And more...
Originally posted by Meowx Design: **MONKEY!!! MONKEY WITH A DIGITAL SLR CAMERA!!! AND A SMALL VIBRATING PIG!!!
I completely agree... I think it unfair to other people, especially newbies, to just shatter thei 'dreams' like that. If you're so sick of it, than why are you replying! Just ignore it! Be happy you have a nice mac community here, with PEOPLE that respond!!! Not some dumb automatic server! Maybe that's the difference, some people have a few feelings too... Hey, you could have at least said your statement NICELY!!
------------------ Arrrrrrr, matey!!!!
but lately those "dreams" have died quickly. either the people that open topics like this don't have as much spirit as people used to or ...... we're flaming 'em harder. EVMP used to span multiple pages on multiple topics... but now....
I've heard some nice things about the future of Helian Wars.
I just want some multiplayer fun. Perhaps Ambrosia could hold something like macaddicts 'frag the editors friday' with EV?
------------------ Is the answer to this question 'no'?
Originally posted by J.Ace21: **but lately those "dreams" have died quickly. either the people that open topics like this don't have as much spirit as people used to or ...... we're flaming 'em harder. EVMP used to span multiple pages on multiple topics... but now....
True... But I still say he could have put it more nicely... I also think this discussion should be closed... Since, i guess, this topics HAS been discussed numerous times...