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So multiplayer has been classified dead for several reasons, one of which is the plug-in differences between my mac, and the next guy's. The solution to this is easy. why not just make it so EV or EVO just ignores the plug-in file for multiplayer games, and all players must start one pilot solely for multiplayer. this pilot could not be used to play single player, and thus the plug-in problem is avoided.
Another is that it would quickly get boring with the first few people getting all the unique missions. Well, you can solve that by eliminating those missions. Have the universe locked into a TIME based system, where certain missions will be accessible, then there sucessors, and so on, then retaliation (from oponents), then they attack you, and you retreat, (and then you're right back where you started. If you had several such series for each race, you could easily have fun for a long time.
Another thing, would be to have EV more real time. for game purposes, say that 1 min = 1 day. when you log in, you go directly into the game, thus ALL ships you see are human controled, and thus, in some circumstances, more chalenging to fight, avoid, or deal with. Probably, the only ships that would be computer controlled would be the onboard fighters that other players launch.
Aside from the networking stuff, the only serious programming neccessary to enable a multiplayer system like this would be to increase the ships/system limit, say, to 64, or maybe even 128 ships.
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Zitchas
Quote
Zitchas wrote: **Aside from the networking stuff, the only serious programming neccessary to enable a multiplayer system like this would be to increase the ships/system limit, say, to 64, or maybe even 128 ships. **
Uhm, if someone were to program a multiplayer EV, not to mention with the additions you made, I assure you canging the maximum number of ships would not be anything, not the slightest bit serious programming. Net EV has been called basically dead because the programming would be insanely hard; not because somebody might have a different plug-in. When people talk about that, they're talking about details if it were to be made. That is sooo nominal it's not even funny. I can't program and even I know how rediculous that.
------------------ -Shade
"Cannibals are people to."
(url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")The Onion, America's finest news source(/url)
There will never be a Multiplayer EV or EVO. Ambrosia said no hundreds of times. I do agree that it is quite possible, not to mention fun, but there is nothing you can do about it.
------------------ "It is not polution that is harming the ecosystem, it is the impurities in air and water that are harming it." -Dan Quayle
Heh, Ambrosia has said they wont make an EV MP, but I do agree it is quite possible, just need to be patient here...
As for all your suggestions Zitchas, they're pretty cool, but you're just scratching the surface really. Do you have any programming experience, or are you just drawing from stuff you've heard about ( I want to know, I'd be cool to talk about it, if you had IM or something).
CS
Clever, but no cigar.
The best approach would be to have missions human-controlled too. Thus, the governments (GM controlled, not by computer) could send missions to both a generic mission BBS or send mission requests directly to specific players. Admin could insert special disasters to spice things up, like an invading alien race ;).
That's only the smallest part of my design for the ultimate EVMP, which combines the best aspects of EV, Ares, Master of Orion II, and Starcraft into one epic game. If Ambrosia did make it, they could make a fortune, but they won't, of course.
------------------ "I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids." -Gen. Jack Ripper, Dr. Strangelove
Basically all you would have to start out with is a multiplayer realm. The physics, planets, missions, and weapons would come second. Unfortunetly, something this simple took Blizzard entertainment nearly a year, and of course (for some people) totaly unfeasable new PowerPcs to run it. Ambrosia won't be making it for several reasons one of which I think is that it would be so different from the original that why bother even calling it EVMP. And if it were made, they already have a game just like it so any new people who would want to use it (who already bought EV or EVO) would have to buy the new EVMP. And if it were only an attatchment program, then setting up the network, making the new game, and spending the time would all come out of their pocket (I hope that wasn't pessimistic ).
Ok, so it would take a lot 'o' time. So, why don't some guys get together and work on it. That's what ambrosia software did. And since there already is such a demand for it, its almost garrenteed success!
Anybody out there will to join the team for Multiplayer Space? Come on! I'd be fun (and profitable)!
------------------ Sleep?! Oh yah... I did that last week.
:As for all your suggestions Zitchas, they're pretty cool, but you're just :scratching the surface really. Do you have any programming experience, or are :you just drawing from stuff you've heard about ( I want to know, I'd be cool to :talk about it, if you had IM or something).
1)I know that I am just showing some of the modifications nesecary/possible for an EVO multiplayer. HEre I just showed some of the more essentiel modifications. If I put ALL the modifications and possibilities, it would probably be more deserving of its own site, not just a note on a BB. Besides, I doubt anyone realy wants to read a three page essay on how to make EVO multiplayer suitable.
2)No, I don't really have any programming experience. Some basic if, then else statements, and similair very simple programming, but nothing anywhere near distributable or sellable level. BUT, all my ideas that I listed here were (To the best of my knowledge) original ones. Some, such as making the misions rotaing ( and not one time), as well as the increase the ships in system capacity are just plain obvious
------------------ Zitchas
ColdFusion wrote: **Clever, but no cigar.
That's only the smallest part of my design for the ultimate EVMP, which combines the best aspects of EV, Ares, Master of Orion II, and Starcraft into one epic game. If Ambrosia did make it, they could make a fortune, but they won't, of course. **
I agree that one or more Game Masters would be able to trigger disaters, or raids, or other similare events, but things like the wars between the various races should be time controlled. So the crescent wars would probably start, then, with missions to give one side the advantage, and depending on who wins, that races becomes more powerful, then counterstrokes occccur, and they or the other races gain, etc. Then the balance would remain for a while, then it would start again, hopefully going a different direction, or perhaps damaging all sides with the renegades winning...
I can deffinitly see having specific missions broadcast to certain planet's BB, but I can't see broadcasting to individual players. I could see, however, broadcasting to players that are, say , affiliated with a particular race. Say, for ex. The Azdigari broadcasting a mission to atack <DST> on <DT> to all players who have done the Azdigari iniations missions.
I can see intergrating EV, EVO, Ares,Master Of Orion II inot one game, but I do not see how Starcraft fits in. Controlling large space fleets, and building =up a planet or station fits in with the EVO/Ares game play, as does building, upgrading and controlling fleets, but ground based warfare as in Starcraft does not really fit. It would transform EVO MP into a completly different game.
Quote from Zeta: Basically all you would have to start out with is a multiplayer realm. The physics, planets, missions, and weapons would come second. End Quote
I disagree. I do not beleive that gamelplay and the physics/game evironement would be that much different then EVO. For gamelplay, all that would really be required is an expansion of the ships in syst. capacity, and the deletion of all the computer ships(with the exception of on board fighters) to make space for the human ships. The only way this would change gamelplay is that if would be harder to determine the strategies and methods to defeat different ships because they are much different. ex. A computer scoutship is much easier to deal with then a scoutship with 3 swivel phase cannones, RCS, Thrust, and Asdgari upgrades, as well as several sheild cap. and a armour plating. It would substantially change gamelplay since all ships could be modified to meet the styles and methodes of there individual player, instead of one of 3 AIs trying to fit the same styles of combat into one of dozens of ships.
I agree that such a game, even if it was only an upgrade purchase, and not complelty seperate game, could still bring in substatial revenue from the EVO comunity, since it would offer greatly increased diversity, since, even in a well made game like EVO, you can only do so much, especially once you get into a UE Cruiser and have completed the Voinian and Crescent Wars, as well as the Zachit.
(This message has been edited by Zitchas (edited 03-10-2000).)
ShadeOfBlue wrote: **Uhm, if someone were to program a multiplayer EV, not to mention with the additions you made, I assure you canging the maximum number of ships would not be anything, not the slightest bit serious programming. Net EV has been called basically dead because the programming would be insanely hard; not because somebody might have a different plug-in. When people talk about that, they're talking about details if it were to be made. That is sooo nominal it's not even funny. I can't program and even I know how rediculous that. **
Firstly, I do not beleive that changing the number of ships EV can handle would be a serious probablem. It is the networking side that would require effort. As I do not know "much" programming at the moment, I am not going to demand that somebody do what I am suggesting. Personally, I would love to make EVO multiplayer myself, and add my own name to the list of credits. But, I am nowhere near that good at programmign, though I am trying to learn more. So lets just keep this a discussion on what A EVO MP would be like, and leave the programming comments to those who are in a position to know aka the people who programmed EV and EVO, or those who are good enough to actually reprogram either EV or EVO (not just messing whith the ship, misn, or resorce data).
I know that Ambrosia has declared that they will not make a multiplayer EVO, but, hey, people, and companies can change there minds. What if, five years down the road, a group of EVO devotees (that could program) presented Ambrosia with a multiplayer version of EVO? Granted it would probably be a version that just let three people on a private network play together, but what do you think Ambrosia do? Maybe, just maybe, they might take it, hire those who made it, and develope a fully internet capable game. I don't think it would take much, from there to get a good game that would have EVO devotees flocking to the Ambrosia download/register site.
Zitchas wrote: **I agree that one or more Game Masters would be able to trigger disaters, or raids, or other similare events, but things like the wars between the various races should be time controlled. So the crescent wars would probably start, then, with missions to give one side the advantage, and depending on who wins, that races becomes more powerful, then counterstrokes occccur, and they or the other races gain, etc. Then the balance would remain for a while, then it would start again, hopefully going a different direction, or perhaps damaging all sides with the renegades winning...
**
You fail to see the point I'm trying to make. The governments would NOT be computer controlled, like in EV/O. Humans would make strategic decisions, decide who to give missions to, and manage their empires. Admin would help balance power - if one govt. has a huge advantage, the admin could send in a sudden disaster. Independent players would be hired by governments to do dirty work or command fleets.
As an element of play, governments would be able to capture planets, etc. Thus, you can command ground troops in a limited fashion - kinda like Warcraft/Starcraft.
Heh, you're making me reveal far more of my secret plans than I ever have before.
And why do you disagree with yourself in your posts?
ColdFusion wrote:
(/B)
Alright, I can see having governements controled by players, although this would add tremendously to the complexity and size of the game, and I agree that this would be great. Creating missions in the game for people would be very complex, but worthwhile. I still don't think that commanding ground troops in combat such as Starcraft is really appropriate for EVO MP. Station or planet defence should be limited to being able to give planets weaponry (turrets, missile silos, etc) wich enemies must destroy before they can capture the planet. such planetary batteries would have very large quantities to commpensate for the lack of manouverability. Being able to upgrade the quality of shipyards, outfiters, and such like of planets you have conquered, or that you command would be a very nice touch, but could lead to some players creating mega-empires that controle huge sections of space. Maybe you should be able to colonise or build bases on uninhabited planets (e.i. ferrying colonists, engineers, terraformers there) If you could do either of these, there should be some way to leave standing orders with your planets, stations, and ships so that they know what to do when someone attacks and you're loged off.
Lastly, My suposedly contradictory messages were replies to other peoples messages, but I forgot the quotes, and they didn't appear emmediatly after the appropriate message. Sorry if it looks confusing.
Well, it did look as if you were striking up a conversation with yourself.
I think we all have a pretty good idea of what the new EVMP would have to do. But who would do it? Not ambrosia (unless you're willing to wait the years for them to maybe change their minds). Why don't we form a team for this? Get some positive action going in the right path? Zitchas, you could even lead them if you had the skills and abilities. Even if most of your work is conceptual, that's probably one of the most important part of building a new game like this. A least somebody start this before I stop looking at any of these posts again. (if you catch my drift)
Good luck to the person who braves the path...
Have you heard of the uEV/O-RPG's? That's what I'm basing my extraordinary plan for EVMP on.
Basically, there would be two types of players: GM's and independent pilots. GM's would have a game experience similar to a cross between Master of Orion II, Ares, and Starcraft/Warcraft. They would control small empires: managing resources, building military might, and exploring. There would be few new technologies - being a real time game, the focus is on strategy. GM's would hire independent pilots to either do quick jobs, like help ship cargo or escort freighters, or commission them and give them a fleet to blow things up with. Missions would be more or less message-based - with a forum for missions to be accepted first come, first serve, and govts could directly contact individual players with missions. Ground combat would be quick and simple - the focus, after all, being on space combat. Hopefully, there would be scalable sprites and zooming, a la Ares, and it would incorporate the small things that are lacking in EV. Governments could manufacture ships for military use, but some would always be available to players. No hired escorts, either: you would have to hire a fellow pilot.
To avoid the mega-empire problem, admin could send in random disasters to balance power - like sudden pirate attacks or crop failures.
This really rambles and misses many important points, but I hope you catch my meaning: EVMP would be a completely different game from EV, with strategic elements added.
Hey, well if you guys want to form a team I'll certainly help out. Anyone here very familiar with MPW??? All my C++ is under NT and solaris. :frown:
Hey, then we can fix up all the stupid design limitations in EVO at the same time... Dynamically compiled lists of ships at start-up, same for systems, etc. Heh, think of it, unlimited ships in a plug-in. AND we can anti-alias beam weapons, use proper clipping regions so that the forementioned beams don't draw over the game panel... This is worth a thread by itself.
Anyways, if you guys need programmers, count me in.
Oh, and don't forget... 8-bit masks! (bumps minimum req's for EVO to G3 with 64 MB's)
(This message has been edited by kberg (edited 03-11-2000).)
Great! I can render my service by graphics. That's what I do best. I'm a sound and graphics centered guy. But, does anyone know how to use Mac Toolbox?
So essentially, all the rights to it are mine j/k
Anyways, all your ideas are cool. CF, you wouldn't happen to have anything planned here would ya?
As for all you other guys wanting to "form" a team, sounds like a good idea, but as said before, there were many made before, and none have been successful yet.
Hey, when I feel bored, I design EVMP. I have a more or less complete design for interface, gameplay, and story already. However, I couldn't program my way out of a paper bag - if anyone wants to sign me on as concept and design, I'd be more than glad to help.
Heh, CF, I see you have aol. I have aol as well. If I catch you online we should chat.
Get bored huh...man, if I actually applied myself to something everytime I got bored (like learning C++) I'd be a master at it by now
Oh the possiblities are endless:
The Government problem could be solved by moderators, when ever they're on they have the ablitiy to give certain missions to different players. And if your a mercenary pilot, and you have enough money, you can purchase your own planet and set up your own government with ship designers (for defense and sale purposes), own technology (defense and sal purposes) , own comodities (trade). When you land on a planet it shows the other people that are landed on the planet (there could be a command to talk to the person), the outfits, the ships, the commodities, the mission computer, and the bar (which could be used as chat, and recieving missions. In space there would be a list of people on the planet, and in the system, there would be commands to give other players amounts of cargo and credits. And if you have your own government you will be on a mailing list and every day you will be mailed who took what mission, who shot down who in your system, who bought a ship, outfit, commodity, on your planet, who accepted missions from your mission computer (another thing you could have the ability to moderate). The there could be longrange commands, to who is online and where. Demanding tribute could be done by how much money your government has (that would be determined on how many ships/outfits were bought, missions successfully accomplished from the mission computer) the more mony your government has the more ships you can send out, and if the player successfuly defeats your fleet you have to pay the player a small amount of money, then you have the ability to hire player bounty hunters, to hunt down the enemy player, once the player is destroyed he or she won't get any money from you. Death is another thing, once you die from a computer you go back to starting planet, once you die from a player you loose half your money which goes to the player that destroyed you. The ship designer i mentioned before, will design ships for your government, each of them have thier own unique themes of Heavy Fighters, Light Fighters, Medium Fighters, Heavy Warships, Light Warships, Medium Warships, (Heavy, Med., Light) Transports, and (Heavy, Med., Light) Frieghters. You can choose the ones you want from that designer, and then Outfit them with Weapon and Outfit designers. Unfortunately this will probably be the most expensive part of the game to play. It will have to cost a lot to prevent all players from doing this, as your government gets older prices increase, so its harder to maintain the empire. There will be certain disasters that happen to your planet (the stronger and bigger your empire is the more disasters it'll have). When you have the oppurtunity to choose 1 of 3 races and then that'll determine the type of ship designers (when or if you own a government) your starting point in the game, and of course your allies and enemies, once you purchase a planet all that is forgotten and you can choose who to side with (or remain nutral), and if you offer help to other governments they'll give you benefits. If your the leader of a planet and you want to go somewhere in the galaxy it'll be the same as if you were a regular player. The only difference between being a government leader, and being a regular leader is the government leader will have a ton of commands to regulate thing at his own planets.
... as I go on, the more I realize this'll never happen, but it's always fun to fantisize